The Psychology Behind Sexual Sin and Shame with Men's Mental Health Expert Trey Tucker

Trey Tucker is a licensed mental health therapist with over 10 years of experience helping people achieve fulfillment, joy, and satisfaction in their lives. He has worked with corporate leaders, entrepreneurs, parents, students, and various organizations to maximize their performance and results by improving their mental health. 

Known for his ability to connect on a deep level with individuals and large groups, Trey also holds specialized training in areas such as anxiety, trauma, relationship communication, sports psychology, identity, and purpose. He is also certified in Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR), and neurofeedback. 

On this episode of The Rise Up Kings Podcast, Skylar Lewis sits down with Trey to explore belief systems, trauma, intimacy, and how men can break free from shame cycles while embracing their God-given identity. If you’ve ever struggled with s*xual sin, rejection, or feeling “not enough,” this conversation will equip you with biblical wisdom and proven strategies to walk in freedom.

Stay tuned until the end for practical exercises, faith-based tools, and Trey’s most powerful healing experiences. 

For more information on Rise Up Kings, go to https://riseupkings.com/youtube

Not ready to do an in-person event? Join our online community here riseupkings.com/4pillarman-yt

Transcript

00:00:01:13 - 00:00:18:25
Unknown
To try to at least bring that down a little bit, but the virus is the problem. So I got to actually what do I do about that? So my behavior, I can work really hard to keep it in check for a while, but eventually, boom, the water is going to break through that dam if there's nothing else. So like a lot of times we think what accountability?

00:00:18:25 - 00:00:40:22
Unknown
That's the answer that needs to be maybe 10 to 15% of the answer. But if that's 100% of somebody's strategy for actually how to transform their life, I'm sorry. But like accountability is going to break because you didn't deal with the root. The source of that water is still pushing against that dam. If the accountability is the only dam boom, it's going to have an explosion.

00:00:40:22 - 00:01:01:20
Unknown
So yeah, one of my favorite things is to help guys and the women that I get to work with, but especially guys that we think that our own strength, our own effort can transform us and just stop the thing we're trying to stop or start the thing we're trying to start. And I'm like, go ahead, keep trying. Sometimes I have to just take my hands off and say, like, all right, keep going.

00:01:01:20 - 00:01:24:16
Unknown
Just let me know when you're ready to try something else. Because, yeah, at some point they're ready to stop digging that hole deeper and deeper because that's all it is. It's it's it's our own self effort that can work for a little while. And then after that little while, really all we've done is strengthened our own will, and it's our own will that we need to actually, like, surrender and let God do something with it.

00:01:24:16 - 00:01:40:10
Unknown
But if it's if it's me, just try and harder for some people that it can work for a couple of years, some people for a couple of months, but eventually we're gonna end up in the same spot of like, I can't do this myself. So as a licensed therapist, right? You spent a lot of time probably digging, right?

00:01:40:10 - 00:02:01:21
Unknown
Uncovering, discovering and allowing God to create some revelation. Yeah, insight inside of people. And so, there is a, one of our, there there are six keys to transformation and long term change. And this is what we teach. So, at one of our events, one is clarity, having clarity on the direction that you want to go, right.

00:02:01:21 - 00:02:26:22
Unknown
The goals that declared and where you're going, number two is mindsets. So really what we're talking about digging deep into the mindsets, the belief systems that are driving behavior is such a critical, critical aspect of long term change. I would say that's probably one of the biggest ones. And number three is habits. So developing lifetime lifelong habits that can shift your character because habits eventually turn into character.

00:02:26:24 - 00:02:43:14
Unknown
Number four is associations being around like minded people that are changing or are where you want to be, right. This is the key to long term change. Yep. Number five is, accountability. Like you talked about. Let's say I think it's a key part of long term change happen around you, but it's a smaller part of it.

00:02:43:14 - 00:03:05:13
Unknown
Right. And then number six is tracking. I'm a big tracker, so if there's any long term shift, I want to have, I'm going to have some some tracking, maybe on a spreadsheet or my app or somewhere where I'm consistent. I'm creating some consistency with that. So those are the six what we call the six keys to long term transformation and mindset is, I say, probably one of the biggest ones.

00:03:05:13 - 00:03:27:00
Unknown
Right. And it's the area that a lot of people get stuck on. So how does one discover the mindsets or the areas of their life that are preventing long term change? Yeah, first of all, it might go into the clarity piece. Tell me more about the clarity part and then that may feed us into more clarity. So it's important clarity taps into our reticular activating system or Ras.

00:03:27:05 - 00:03:46:11
Unknown
So it, it tells our brain what to not, delete, what information to not delete. Right. And so it's a very important to get clear and have a clear vision of, of where you want in your life, where you want to go in your life. Otherwise you're if you're habit, you need your habits to align with some vision.

00:03:46:11 - 00:04:07:05
Unknown
That's right. If your vision is to have a great body, that's great. And then you can start to shift your habits to match that. So really clarity is all around goal setting and vision. Like what? Where am I going? And then I'm going to line up those other keys, in alignment with that. Good. Okay. That's what I was wondering because what I found is I can help somebody work on their mindset all I want.

00:04:07:05 - 00:04:31:08
Unknown
But if they don't have a vision, a direction they're trying to head, and their mindset is, it's really hard for them to even examine because it's kind of like if you you can look at your GPS, but if you don't have a destination plugged in, it doesn't really matter. All the different turns along the way. So yeah, I love that clarity said, I would be curious, though, what let's take somebody that's they're setting a goal for physical health.

00:04:31:11 - 00:04:46:28
Unknown
If their goal is to have a great body, do you ask them to dig deeper into why they want the great body? You just kind of let them run with that at first. No, we definitely some why is is a key part of that okay. Yeah. Because that that's one thing I found is with with especially with men.

00:04:47:01 - 00:05:06:18
Unknown
We think if I could just be ripped rich and getting laid, then that would fix everything. Yeah. So so I like not say it, but that's what they're thinking, right. That's right. That's what they know. That's their truth. Yeah. Yeah. So like if when I'm helping them kind of I don't use the term clarity as much. But I might steal that from you guys.

00:05:06:18 - 00:05:30:19
Unknown
But when I'm helping them cast that vision or find that clarity, I love when they're starting to look at goals and whether it be physical health or whatnot. And so at first I just let them have that goal and I don't really push back against it. If if I know I'm going to see them for a few weeks because I want them to have at least some sort of sea legs underneath, I'm like, okay, I've set a goal, I've started moving that direction.

00:05:30:19 - 00:05:50:05
Unknown
And then if I know that there's probably needs to be an adjustment to that goal or at least a change in motivation of the goal, then I'll start asking those kind of challenging questions about like, why do you want a great body? And just see what ultimately it's all about, like what they think is going to fulfill them or make them feel like demand or fix them.

00:05:50:05 - 00:06:14:23
Unknown
So yeah, the clarity piece is is essential to that. What do you think is, what due to hard shift on, like, sexual addiction and just extreme challenges with lust or maybe pornography or or the constant urge? Yep. What do you what have you seen after working with many men in your practice, what are some of the root causes?

00:06:14:26 - 00:06:39:07
Unknown
Well, let's. That takes us actually back into that mindset question. Yeah. Is that both in the research and in my anecdotal experience, just in my own life, because I've, I've put a lot of my own story out there on video, the sexual realm is the sexual temptation is the biggest one that I've had to fight. And it's I'm far from I will never say I've fully defeated that, because the minute I do, I'm sure you know, it's like, no, it's coming right back.

00:06:39:07 - 00:06:59:26
Unknown
So, I've found that there are there are parts of us that basically kind of send thoughts to our brain. So when I look at mindset, I one of the things I try to help everybody understand is that you're not your thoughts and not every thought you have is true. Yeah. You had your whole training on that, ma'am.

00:07:00:02 - 00:07:19:25
Unknown
There's a lot of people that have get really jacked up when they think bad thoughts. Right. Or they have, they have an intrusive thought and then they feel guilty about this. Random thoughts like, you are not your thoughts. So good. What do you do for them when they have that? Really? I'm training them that they're not their thoughts and that intrusive thoughts are okay.

00:07:19:27 - 00:07:40:06
Unknown
And that's part that's part of that. That's part of being a human being. It's almost like we share thoughts as humanity, right? They just kind of transfer through generations the direct transfer from human to human. So an intrusive thought needs to just be we need to allow it to pass. And if we continue now, if we continue to have the same intrusive thoughts over an extended period of time, there might be some root there.

00:07:40:07 - 00:08:00:00
Unknown
Yeah, right. There may be some route that's worth discovering or exploring. Like, I wonder if this. But in general, intrusive thoughts are just a part of, of humanity. So the what I what you resist persists. Amen. Right. So the more you resist something, it tends to push back on you, and you'll have more of it. Right? Right.

00:08:00:06 - 00:08:20:15
Unknown
Exactly. Yeah. So, yeah, when we freak out about a thought. Yeah. Then, then there's parts of us that are thinking, oh, no, we're in danger. Yep. So yeah, I use the language of parts just because I'm trained in this thing called ifs. And it's a type of therapy, but it's it's been really transformational for me. And the easiest way to understand it is have you ever seen the movie Inside Out or either one of them?

00:08:20:18 - 00:08:46:17
Unknown
It's that it's the I, I went through five years of grad school and they in two hour movies. Yeah, they did a good job of that. Yes they did. It was genius. So but that that really is how our nervous system works. There's, there's parts that are responsible for different things, and there are different parts that shoot up different thoughts and as you said, there's so many thoughts that just get passed on to us from generations or just from culture.

00:08:46:20 - 00:09:09:28
Unknown
And so a lot of times a thought is like that part is, is essentially offering up a shirt for you to try on, like, hey, is this the thought that you want? And then if not, then they'll keep on throwing different thoughts just to see, hey, is this what you need? And then other thoughts, like you said, the ones that are persisting, those are usually coming from different parts that are they're probably carrying around some sort of burden or some sort of wound.

00:09:10:00 - 00:09:31:23
Unknown
And that thought is their way of trying to get your attention to say like, hey, pay attention. It's like if you take if you take a lost thought, of course, as a physical element, we want to feel good physically, never want to discount that. And then when you get underneath that, it's usually something in us that that needs some sort of connection or acceptance.

00:09:31:25 - 00:10:09:26
Unknown
And that part it, it knows that the the unhealthy sexual behavior isn't the best option, but it's like, look, we got an injury in here and this is the only way we know how to do it. So like here, try this and that. A lot of times in a, in a sexual thought that compulsion tends to drive from that injury or that wound inside is like there's a part in you that just doesn't know any better, but you as the real you, the the person who's got God has placed his thumbprint on you can go and father that part of you and help it realize like, hey, I know you're hurt, I know you're hurting.

00:10:09:26 - 00:10:29:23
Unknown
I know there's an injury and we're going to work through that. But this thing you're trying to offer up as the solution, it actually isn't the solution. It's just going to keep us stuck. And if you treat those thoughts like little kids that just don't know any better. Yeah, then a lot of times they're less intimidating and they're a whole lot easier to change and adjust versus feeling shame and guilt.

00:10:29:23 - 00:10:45:21
Unknown
Because you had a thought, yes I do. There's some wacky thoughts that pop in right people's minds. And there's there's been some ridiculous, crazy thoughts sort of came into my mind. But I'm like, that is dark and twisted and I'm surprised I can't. I mind, but I do my best right to not allow guilt or shame to come in.

00:10:45:21 - 00:11:08:22
Unknown
If I have a random right intrusive thought that is just dark. Yes, right. And so. But the tendency to feel guilt, so might I allow God into those thoughts too? Right? So I'll bring God in. I'll hand that thought over to God. Yeah, in Jesus name. Right. And a shift. I shift my mentality, and I just allow that to pass and allow God to take those thoughts from me.

00:11:08:22 - 00:11:26:13
Unknown
So I have a almost a physical representation of that. If there's a thought that comes into my head that's just just random, taking every thought captive. Yeah, that's what is that? Second Corinthians ten, I think. And and captive doesn't mean that you hold on to it and sit with it. Right. I think people miss that. That I take it captive, like, just own that thought.

00:11:26:16 - 00:11:43:13
Unknown
Yeah. Nope. Taking a captive means allowing it to pass where it doesn't own you. Yes, right. We want to own it more than it owns us. So how do we own those thoughts? We allow them to pass, or we use it as a, little check engine light when there's patterns, right? If it's a pattern, thought like, okay, interesting.

00:11:43:15 - 00:11:59:08
Unknown
Maybe there's something, maybe there's something here out of here, and we do it out of curiosity. Not a out of shame. Yes. So the antidote to shame. Is what we teach is curiosity. So as opposed to going, hey, like something's wrong with me, it's like, oh, interesting. I wonder why I wonder I wonder where that thought came from.

00:11:59:10 - 00:12:26:23
Unknown
Yeah. More curious versus shame. Shame focused. Yes. You are hitting, man. You're hitting the root. I wish more therapists would, things like that. So because we're speaking the same language, you probably know this, but the main thing that keeps men stuck in sexual struggles is shame. Yeah. And so curiosity is, is the antidote. At least the first antidote was if you can't get out of your own way and stop beating yourself up, then just quit trying to shame.

00:12:26:25 - 00:12:46:06
Unknown
Shame spirals in shame cycles. It is, devastating for people in any kind of any kind of addiction, right? It keeps them, any kind of a negative sin pattern. It really keeps them stuck. Yeah. And so then once they. So if someone's dealing with sexual sin, lust pornography. Right. And they start to get curious. Right?

00:12:46:06 - 00:13:05:01
Unknown
They're allowing shame not to own them. Right. What what are what are some of those roots that you've seen. Typically it's rejection. So for me in my story, I remember in fourth grade I was the only new student that was in the school. Like everybody else had been together since kindergarten. So that years together and they all knew each other.

00:13:05:01 - 00:13:19:07
Unknown
And here I was on the first day of school. I was already nervous, like, am I going to fit in? Is anybody going to like me? Just all the thoughts that I mean, we don't just have them as elementary school students. I mean, I still have them to this day. If I walk into a new situation, like a little bit of trepidation.

00:13:19:07 - 00:13:49:27
Unknown
So, it's not as bad as it used to be, but I remember walking. It was it was the first class of the day was gym class. And I remember walking down a set of steps to get into the gym, walking toward a circle of my classmates just sitting there talking to each other. And I got closer and closer, and as I got close enough to start to sit down with the group, this one guy, this is a fourth grader again, one guy looks up at me and he goes, damn, I'm glad I'm not looking into a mirror right now.

00:13:50:00 - 00:14:16:19
Unknown
As I look back on my. That's pretty clever insults for a fourth grader. But it's like in that moment, I wish some sort of trap door could have opened up, or I could have just disappeared because I felt this, like vortex open up in my chest and everybody was laughing. Guys and girls. And I'm just I was flooded in that moment, and I had no idea that that moment really made some sort of lasting impact on me, because I really didn't think much about it after that.

00:14:16:22 - 00:14:40:21
Unknown
But as I look back around my like late 20s, early 30s, when I started to really try to start changing some of my behavior, that moment came back to me. I was like, oh, in that moment, I started real. I started making decisions like, well, I better just avoid being the new guy and I better do something to, like, impress people and make them think I'm the man.

00:14:40:23 - 00:15:03:03
Unknown
And that looked different ways as I got older. But the thing that I realized was it wasn't so much the event getting made fun of, getting laughed at, like obviously that was bad, but it was the meaning that I attached to the belief that I'm curious as I was my next question. So what we found is so much of our behavior stems or most of our belief system.

00:15:03:03 - 00:15:22:28
Unknown
So I'd say 8,085% stem from a to 12 to 14 years old. I mean, most of our belief systems are like locked in. Yeah. And most human beings never go back and reprogram. Yeah. And go back and go, oh, shit. What what belief did I make up? What meaning that I make up at that time when my parents got divorced or when I got rejected from that.

00:15:22:28 - 00:15:41:29
Unknown
So. Well, have you discovered, like what? What belief did you make up? The biggest. There were probably 3 or 4, but the biggest one was that this. It was almost like this voice from outside telling me, you are not good enough. And that's why this happened. And since you're not good enough, it kind of becomes a sort of illogical, but sounds logical at the time.

00:15:41:29 - 00:16:00:18
Unknown
Trains like since you're not good enough, you gotta start changing yourself and you gotta start proving yourself every chance you get. And so for me, hook ups became one of the ways that I accomplished that. Otherwise I would keep trying to prove myself didn't work like I played baseball, but wasn't that great at it. So I had to keep looking for ways that I could, quote unquote, succeed.

00:16:00:18 - 00:16:28:19
Unknown
So yeah, that was getting the girl. Was your way of proving yourself. Yeah. Do yourself. Yep. Good enough. And and as I look at it, because that age range you talked about, it's absolutely the case. Like the most I don't know, formative events definitely happened in that age range. Yeah. But what we found in the research is from really from birth to age ten, those events, even though they're they seem more minor and less impactful.

00:16:28:23 - 00:16:51:09
Unknown
Those actually were the deepest roots. And then the, the seemingly bigger events that do happen in that like eight to 14 to 16 range, they just really get piled on top of that initial memory. And you can you basically like there's this type of theory therapy called eMDR where you can you can go through all the memories from like later in your life if you want to.

00:16:51:09 - 00:17:14:21
Unknown
But until you get to that earliest core memory, no major shift is going to happen. So a lot of times I'll tell you guys, right, let's let's skip the major stuff, the stuff that seems like it's really holding you back. And let's get to the earliest thing that might seem minor, because if we can trip that domino, then these other major events may not cause you as much of an issue, and they'll be easier to clean up.

00:17:14:23 - 00:17:37:10
Unknown
You know, it's interesting. So I thought so. So what's coming up for me right now is that, the the pattern of lust and sexual sin is a, it usually stems from some sort of rejection or trauma. Right. It could have been, could have been molestation or something else. There could have been some significant thing or it could have been I mean, rejection is significant in a kid's mind at that moment.

00:17:37:10 - 00:18:00:23
Unknown
Oh, sure, it's the most significant thing. But what's interesting and and what's interesting and I'm processing that right there right now is so yes, we can have patterns, of, I think I lost a thought. It was so good. It's it's so, so we can have patterns of of lust, right. When we get older, that stem from that.

00:18:00:23 - 00:18:19:07
Unknown
But but the even thought patterns can stem from those things. Yes. Right. Because what happens is we learn to cope a certain way, and our brain knows that if I, if I think this thing, if I think this thought, it will get me out of it or it will get me that dopamine hit or it will, as an example, right?

00:18:19:10 - 00:18:35:00
Unknown
I was working out yesterday and I pushed. I was pushing really hard and I was having some random intrusive thoughts of quitting like, oh, I have to use the bathroom. Oh, I have like I was throwing up thoughts. Yeah. Trying to get me to quit. Yep. You know, I'm like, oh no, I'm not doing it, dude. It was just it was just tossing up thoughts.

00:18:35:00 - 00:19:03:28
Unknown
And so, my brain, I before, I guess I, I had used those. Yeah. Right. To stop. And so it's like, oh, I can get Skyler to stop and to be comfortable by throwing out this thought. Yeah. And so what's happened is, is we may have had coping mechanisms and use those thoughts as a kid. Right, right. Those thoughts may have brought us a certain level of comfort or and then now that thought pattern is now ingrained, that neural pathways ingrained, where now it's just become a it's become a pattern of coping.

00:19:03:29 - 00:19:27:16
Unknown
Yeah. Right. With thoughts even. But it doesn't even have to be behavior, right. It can be thoughts. Just thoughts like. And I've seen that before with people that have been bullied. They've, they had a thought pattern of thinking of revenge. Or, or or or running away. And so what happens is, is, is in intense situations where they feel out of control, those thoughts start triggering.

00:19:27:17 - 00:19:42:24
Unknown
Yeah. Right. They'll start the thought of running away or the thought of like revengeful thoughts. Right. You know, some people wonder, well, hey, why do I have these revengeful thoughts? Well, you learn that as a kid that made you feel better. Yeah, right. When you're eight years old or ten years old, someone's bullying you. You can't do a lot.

00:19:42:26 - 00:20:01:09
Unknown
So you're you you you imagine, right, what you would do to that guy. Right? And our bodies, well, both our bodies and our brains, they have a hard time figuring out what's imagined and what's real. Yep. Oh, yeah. So, especially when we're young, we learn this habit of, oh, we can escape through these thoughts, or we can bring comfort to these thoughts.

00:20:01:16 - 00:20:35:22
Unknown
It's the same reason horror movies work. Like, logically, we know that's happening on a screen. It's not real, but there's something in us that it starts to get activated like this. This murderer might come after me kind of thing. So yeah, the thoughts can definitely be that. But I think you touched on it. Number one, comfort often is the one of the biggest needs that's going on under the surface when there's sexual thoughts and the whole at least for me, the the thing that helped me and that has helped other guys that I've worked with is when we're trying to get to the root of it, the thoughts definitely are important.

00:20:35:22 - 00:21:01:23
Unknown
But let's let's figure out what did I need in the moment and then we can build it from here. Okay, here was the need. So let's say it was comfort then what were my thoughts that ended up leading to some of those sexual thoughts or behaviors. But let's focus on the comfort. So for example, one of my friends, he was he's got the same kind of, sexual pattern thing going on, and he's been trying to stop it.

00:21:01:23 - 00:21:27:12
Unknown
And one of the first times that he actually zoomed out to try to get to the root issue, he come in the next morning after hookup. Because why did I do this? I just reached out to this girl and like, I can't explain a while. So I asked him like, well, what happened in the day or two leading up to it and 2 or 3 different things that happened, he had a family member pass away and made a bad grade on a test in college, like just stressors that had piled up.

00:21:27:15 - 00:21:50:06
Unknown
And he didn't put two and two together. But a lot of times, you know this, somebody can objectively look at your situation and say, well, well, this is it. And so, yeah, he was he was looking for a comfort. And in his mind, his mind had been trained because of the trauma that he had lived through, like real trauma, his mind had been trained to go to thoughts of escape and physical closeness and intimacy.

00:21:50:09 - 00:22:07:10
Unknown
So it just ran that same pattern. And again, those were parts in him that were actually trying to be helpful. They were they were trying to bring him comfort. They weren't trying to hurt him. So we were able to, with curiosity, like you said, take him back to those places that needed the comfort and say, hey, look, I know you're hurting.

00:22:07:11 - 00:22:29:20
Unknown
Thanks for helping. It's like you're literally like talking to yourself. You're using imagination, talking to the parts. And it help him realize, like, okay, I don't have to beat myself up for that. I can actually bring curiosity and compassion and invite God into these wounds because I don't. I think if he had not reached out to me or whoever, he would have just stayed into, why did I just do this?

00:22:29:20 - 00:22:46:15
Unknown
And then the shame factor would have been piled high. And then a month later, he had found himself in the same situation with still no answers. So yeah, it's to me, it's get to that. What is the need? What was that? So those thoughts can be, check engine light, right? That's like, hey, there's something else going on here.

00:22:46:17 - 00:23:01:19
Unknown
That doesn't mean just because you have a thought. It doesn't mean you take action on that thought. Yeah, it's a little check engine light. And I love what you talk about your your needs. Right. So what I found with married men is when they feel when they don't feel either. When that when there's a lack of there's a couple things.

00:23:01:22 - 00:23:18:12
Unknown
But when there's a lack of intimacy and they don't feel this connection with somebody, pornography tends to be the thing that they'll end up going to. Right? When they're not feeling that connection. They they want intimacy. Like, guys may not mention that, but do we do we want we want emotional connection. We like we we we desire that.

00:23:18:15 - 00:23:45:13
Unknown
And when we feel like we're not getting that, we feel alone. Then we'll we'll turn to whatever pattern we've turned to before. Absolutely. That has brought us a feeling of fake feeling of intimacy or connection. Right? Yeah. That here's one thing I've realized whenever, whenever I'm in a cycle moving toward some sort of sexual sin or, I've seen it in other people, too.

00:23:45:13 - 00:24:07:14
Unknown
It's really the same pattern of, like, I want to be respected and I do want intimacy and connection, but like you said, we don't really use that language. But no, but one of the things to realize, like, I want this in my in my mind, this is the picture I have, is I want the FBI or whoever to come into a room and say, Trey, we've got a case.

00:24:07:14 - 00:24:22:27
Unknown
We really need your help. Come with us. Because I want to feel like the man. Yeah, yeah, I, I want to be able to come through. And there's a lot of intimacy that comes with that because it's respect. It's connection with people that are leaning on me and me leaning on them. And so yeah, when we don't get that in a marriage, in a, in a daily way.

00:24:22:27 - 00:24:40:01
Unknown
Yeah, there's gaps in there that, that have to be filled. And again, those parts know that the gaps have to be filled. And sometimes they don't know any better way other than the sexual way. Yeah. My, my old pattern was when I didn't get that fulfillment in my marriage was to try to turn to pornography or to start imagining things.

00:24:40:01 - 00:24:58:14
Unknown
Right. This was this was an old pattern that I had when I didn't feel respected, or I was just lacking some connection. And so what I've learned to do now is if I'm lacking connection and I can tell and I can feel lustful thoughts starting to creep in. And my mind's starting to mess with me. It's trying to go to that old pattern right.

00:24:58:16 - 00:25:14:10
Unknown
Yep. But I feel that happening. I know it's the check engine light and so I'll go and I'll go have a conversation with Jessica and say, hey babe, I love you. And I could, I could use some connection like, let's, let's connect. So good, you know? So I'll lean in versus leaning out. Yeah. Which is it has been transformational inside of a marriage.

00:25:14:10 - 00:25:32:28
Unknown
The other way leaning out was very, destructive, and causing a lot of damage in our marriage. And leaning in man is is a solution. Because then once I get that connection with her, right, whether it's whether it's physical intimacy that we get to have or whether it's some emotional disconnection, I'm better, I feel great. Yeah.

00:25:32:28 - 00:25:53:26
Unknown
Yeah. And so it's up to me, though, to go seek that out, not wait for her. Oh, yeah. To go like she doesn't know what's going on. She doesn't know what's going on inside me. I'm, like, dealing with all of this, right? Stress, lack of respect about feeling connected. She doesn't know what's going on. But yeah, I need to I need to to to let her know what's happening inside of me.

00:25:53:28 - 00:26:13:13
Unknown
Yeah. And I think some marriages are probably lacking that ability to communicate. But it's necessary, man. If you want. If you want, if you're listening this podcast and you want, you want a long term marriage that is successful and healthy and strong, like having that open line of communication when you have a need, when you have a need that's not getting met.

00:26:13:13 - 00:26:42:01
Unknown
It's not your wife's fault, but it's just not getting met at that moment, or you need more of it. There's some I've realized for me, there's there's months or there's there's yeah, there's months. There's seasons where I, I have more sexual drive. My testosterone is higher. And so I notice it like my desire is actually increased. Yep. And then there'll be other seasons where it's not, but when it, when it's increased, like, I gotta let you, I have to it's my, my job now to go make more of an effort to connect sexually with Jessica.

00:26:42:04 - 00:26:58:09
Unknown
Yeah. And they connect more, even even emotionally to drive that sexual connection. Because. Because otherwise I'm going to leave. I'm going to I might try to lean out. So I need to know, like, I can and I know now now I know it's a pattern where I'm able to go, okay, interesting. I think, I think I have a higher drive right now.

00:26:58:11 - 00:27:22:27
Unknown
Okay. That means I lean into Jessica. How how did you first start building that self-awareness to even identify the need? Because that's a big tripping point for most people, especially men. I notice my, I mean, it took me years, many, many years. This is probably within the last, like three years, I would say that I actually can catch now when my testosterone seems to be increasing in that moment, or something's happening with a drive is increasing.

00:27:23:00 - 00:27:52:29
Unknown
And so it usually starts with some desire to lust. I'll desire to look at a woman a little bit longer, or my mind might want to wander for a second. Then I'll catch it. Right. I'll catch it, I'll go. Interesting. I wanted to look at that woman a little longer. And so I'm like, okay. And so I just, I just if I, if I start to feel that for a couple days, then I realize, okay, I need to I need something right now, something that something's not getting met or my just my desires increased.

00:27:53:01 - 00:28:07:03
Unknown
What about, the times when you know it's respect you need or connection? How did you build that awareness to see that that was the need. That's good.

00:28:07:05 - 00:28:26:10
Unknown
I don't know I don't exactly know how I but I can tell the feeling, I can tell when I feel I use the check engine light, I use, I use I use my whatever's happening either with my thoughts or my behaviors to, to look inward and go, what's what's happening inside? What what needs aren't being met right now.

00:28:26:12 - 00:28:42:06
Unknown
Yeah. And so yeah. Yeah I it's a, it's a feeling I can tell I can tell when I feel either a little bit lonely or if I feel a lack of respect and that a lack of respect could come from me not producing my own results and business. Yeah. Right. It's not always just somebody disrespecting me, right?

00:28:42:06 - 00:29:03:21
Unknown
It could be. What? I don't feel like I'm the man. Yes. Right. And so it's not anybody else's fault. Right. But. And there's a way that I could still lean. I could still lean into key relationships. When I do feel that, the reason I ask is because even after I became a therapist, identifying my own needs was the biggest tripping point of me, because I.

00:29:03:24 - 00:29:22:10
Unknown
I had basically cut myself off from the neck down. I was just all in my head and had no idea that there was a huge there is a huge mind body connection. I was just always intellectualizing things, just trying to figure it out. And and at some point I realized, like, the answers are not all up in my head, they're also in my body.

00:29:22:10 - 00:29:38:24
Unknown
And if we really want to get geeky, there are brain cells in our stomach and brain cells in our heart. And so I had to start connecting into those. And but once I started to, I actually looked at, I googled this thing called the Wheel of Needs. And it's this little wheel and it has like, probably a hundred different emotional and physical needs.

00:29:38:27 - 00:29:54:27
Unknown
And I started realizing, okay, there's like 8 or 9 of these needs that tend to, I don't know, fit better for me. And once I realized, it's probably one of those 8 or 9 needs, I became so much better at realizing, like, okay, boom, check engine light, get a bucket to put it in now. Exactly. A bucket.

00:29:54:27 - 00:30:11:28
Unknown
Put it in. Oh that's great. So that that's one of the things I try to help men do is like, realize I not just what's going on in your head, but also what's what's the need that your body is trying to fulfill. Obviously, if it's sex, it's partly physical, but as we know, it's it's connection. It's respect.

00:30:11:28 - 00:30:29:20
Unknown
It's all the other things. But let me ask you this. When you're when you're teaching men about the words shame and connection or intimacy, do you get any pushback with that? Because I get I get pushback, especially on the term shame. But I've found that for whatever reason, men don't really resonate with that. No, not not not too often.

00:30:29:22 - 00:30:47:25
Unknown
I don't think I don't think guys understand shame. Right. Like what you're talking about. They push back on it because they don't understand it. I would say they don't. They don't get how it's showing up in their body. Right? They don't understand the feeling of shame that's happening inside of them. It's like a, it's a, it's a visceral, experience.

00:30:47:25 - 00:31:10:11
Unknown
It's and and I would when I'm sure you can relate to this or maybe even share this, but shame is I am bad. Guilt is I did something bad. Right? So guilt it's okay to feel guilt in the moment, but then move on. Shames rarely ever like beneficial, especially if we're Christians, right? Because our identity is in Christ, which we are redeemed.

00:31:10:13 - 00:31:29:20
Unknown
So I'm not bad. And there's a lot of preachers that preach, right? Hey, you're bad, you're a sinner. It's like, I get it. And no, not as a new not as a new creation in Christ. And so it's like, no, I'm redeemed. I spiritually, I am clean, I'm covered in the blood. I am fully redeemed. Like I'm not a wretched man.

00:31:29:25 - 00:31:47:21
Unknown
Yeah, I'm not a wretched man. And so that, so that identity is really, really key. So shame is I am bad. It's like something's inherently wrong with me. Is like the the the shame. And so I think a lot of guys don't understand shame. We might even talk about shame. I don't really get a lot of pushback.

00:31:47:23 - 00:32:01:27
Unknown
But until we start to explain shame a little bit more and show that shame is really how you can see shame show up in your life is when you take out the hammer. So the guys that tend to take out the hammer on themselves and kind of beat themselves up, yep, tend to be more shame ridden. Heck yeah.

00:32:01:27 - 00:32:23:29
Unknown
Yeah. And it it is that I am bad. And, you could fit other phrases in there like what are some other phrases? Yeah. For me, going back to that fourth grade story is, not good enough. Yeah. It's just that that shame of being not enough for me, at least an anecdotal experience. Most of the men that I work with that is probably the most common version of the shame of it all, but.

00:32:24:01 - 00:32:44:02
Unknown
But it is, you know, I think it the term we need a new term for shame, because I think when men hear that, yeah, we just repel like, no, I'm not ashamed. We don't want, no, we don't want to put that on. Right. We don't want to wear the shame shirt. Yeah it's embarrassing. Luckily at our events, guys are very open and like we dig deep, so they roll with it, right?

00:32:44:04 - 00:33:03:16
Unknown
But what other have you thought about another word or another? I haven't because I've. It's just been the last couple months that I've started realizing this, so I'm just I'm also thinking more and asking more people. Yeah. Shame. Yeah. Yeah. People don't want to put on that shirt, and wear that word shame. So when you, when they try it on, they're not going to like that unless they're in the right environment.

00:33:03:18 - 00:33:38:29
Unknown
Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's a relevant conversation. Right. Sexual addiction. I've seen that sexual addiction, sexual sin tends to be the thing that that, that, that hot men the most, out of out of out of anything else. And so much is so much of it stems from that, unworthiness. Right. And so that belief, like, like you talked about earlier, it could be something simple, like a buddy not wanting to hang out when you're eight years old or saying, I'm going or watching or noticing about you're in a conversation.

00:33:38:29 - 00:33:53:26
Unknown
The guy walks away and goes to another guy. That little thing as an eight year old could then set the trajectory of that eight year old off. Yeah, on the I'm not worthy or something's wrong with me or people don't like me or there's something that there's something there. Right. It's and there's not a way to fix that.

00:33:53:27 - 00:34:14:00
Unknown
I, I'm, I'm acutely aware of that with my kids. And I'd love it if they didn't have that as a, as a pain point. There it's going to happen. Yeah, I see it. I already see it. One of my boys, he's it's it's already there. It's locked in. What do you do about it. Yeah. I continuously speak life into him and intentionally shift him.

00:34:14:00 - 00:34:32:18
Unknown
Because what happens to is our brain is always looking for evidence to prove beliefs, right? Is it right? And so, I liken it to a table with legs. So our brain. Right, has this belief. And if there's a belief, maybe I'm not good enough or I'm not worthy, or people don't like me as much as other people.

00:34:32:18 - 00:34:53:02
Unknown
That belief, as soon as that belief, there's evidence. There's one piece of evidence for that. That little kid walking away and talking to another buddy. A leg is put in. And so what our brain does is our brains job is to prove beliefs true. And so it's going to now start searching for evidence. And so now it's going to notice another guy that another time it happens and another time.

00:34:53:02 - 00:35:16:08
Unknown
And each time that happens, it's another leg. And that leg. And next thing you know, that table's got 30 legs on it and it is strong as heck. Yeah, it's a stronghold with the Bible. Wrong hold. Yep. Exactly. And that it's not going anywhere unless there's some intentional effort around that. And so yeah. So the way to break free is to throw out another idea of another possible belief, right in this ad.

00:35:16:09 - 00:35:32:14
Unknown
Well, first off, ask, is that true? Is that belief true? Am I not worthy? And then we have to find a way of we have to create a gap in their words like not true. And if we can see it's not true, then we can throw up an alternative belief. Okay, maybe I am worthy. What if I am worthy?

00:35:32:17 - 00:35:46:11
Unknown
Or what if I am left? Or what if people do actually like me? And so we throw that up, and then we have to intentionally find evidence for that new belief. But but like, it takes work. Oh, there it is. Yep. Oh. A time that I was worthy. A time that I was good enough. A time that people.

00:35:46:13 - 00:36:04:20
Unknown
A time that I was smart. A time that I'm good at numbers. Oh, there was a time that that. And so I start, we start finding those evidence until there's so many more legs that we've broken off the other legs. Yeah, that that new belief takes hold and locks and that's my strategy or how I, how I integrate new belief systems within human beings.

00:36:04:22 - 00:36:25:11
Unknown
And so with Brendan. Oh, yeah. That's the kid that I love. Yeah. Is So I'm noticing. I'm noticing him. Have some, some core beliefs that aren't effective for him, and he's catching evidence and collecting evidence. I'm intentionally finding ways to break those legs and throw up new evidence. Hey, do you do you notice that? Say, did you notice that how those kids or the other boys are following you in that moment?

00:36:25:11 - 00:36:42:00
Unknown
Hey, do you notice this? So I'm I'm intentionally working my way to see if I can counteract that belief. Oh, man. Yeah, it's it's some work, but it's, And I'm not going to be perfect. And he's going to have to go do some deep work. All of us will, like, become adults, man. Some more than others, though, some more than others, right?

00:36:42:00 - 00:36:59:01
Unknown
The more, the more issues such trauma you go through. Yeah, it can take years of of unwinding and it's not a bad thing. Maybe there's purpose in your pain. Maybe God's allowing you, like with you, right? The things you've gone through. God's allowed you to go through those so you can now go serve other people. Yeah, yeah you can.

00:36:59:01 - 00:37:19:27
Unknown
You're most able to help the person you used to be. So yeah, you're qualified because of the pain to help somebody else. Maybe nobody else is going to be able to relate to them, but you will because of what you went through, but with your own story. Remember you talked about a few minutes ago about just some of your own, whether it be lust struggles, any other kind of struggles that are rooted in past events.

00:37:19:27 - 00:37:29:21
Unknown
What's what's one, I don't know, technique or experience has been especially healing for you.

00:37:29:23 - 00:37:56:11
Unknown
Journaling, journaling and prayer. So what I'll do is when I notice that there is a, something that is hindering me, like either a belief or, some experience or some past thing that's happened, I, I visualize myself giving that up to God. And then I journal. I journal through why God allowed that to happen and that and that God most likely is allowing this to happen.

00:37:56:11 - 00:38:21:16
Unknown
So I can go serve other people as I process through that. So it allows me to release that release that pain. And so journaling and prayer are like my two top tools, I would say, for me to process through most things. That's awesome. Have you ever heard of the. It's called different Things, but what I call it is the mountain top, experience of the mountain top, drill, so to speak.

00:38:21:16 - 00:38:44:11
Unknown
So tell me, tell me more. It sounds kind of like what you're doing is you visually walk up a mountain where Jesus is at the cross, and you're bringing the thing that you want him to heal or the thing that you want to get rid of, and you visualize yourself laying that thing right there at the cross that he is on and allowing him to take it to do whatever he needs to do with it.

00:38:44:13 - 00:39:00:16
Unknown
And then you walk back down the mountain into your quote unquote, normal life. And I'm not claiming it's a one shot thing. Yes. There's almost never going to be like a zap like that. There can be. But but that's one of the exercises that I found, at least in my life. For other people, it sounds similar to what you're talking about.

00:39:00:16 - 00:39:16:01
Unknown
I think if I yeah, I love it. Yep. One of the one of my visualizations with real heavy burdens is I'll visualize my me walking with a backpack. That's all I have a backpack with rocks and that represent those things. And it's weighing me down. And then I visualize Jesus next to me, and he's like, I want your burdens.

00:39:16:04 - 00:39:31:07
Unknown
And so I take off my backpack and I hand it to him and he puts it on, and then he carries those burdens. And I like I'm released of those burdens. So I love the mountain top, though. That's very that's a very special experience because you can label each of those things and see them right, placed at the foot of the cross as he takes those.

00:39:31:07 - 00:39:52:10
Unknown
And then a, a representation of walking back down to your life is a fantasy stick. Do you, do you walk clients through anything? I do? Yeah. Yeah, I love it is powerful. There's just there's so much that happens because of our imagination. And I don't I'm not going to claim to understand how this works, but I know God gave us an imagination for a reason, and he made it powerful.

00:39:52:13 - 00:40:11:05
Unknown
And I think it's been so hijacked by, I think, 90% of the time we misuse our imagination on lust and fear, and if we could actually free up our imagination to use it in some, some ways, that God really intended, who knows what could happen with that? It's amazing. Yeah, we do. We do a lot of visualization. Yeah.

00:40:11:08 - 00:40:35:22
Unknown
Some really cool experiences at some of our events. Are there any other neat visualization that you walk clients do that are pretty impactful. You know, the the most common one I take them through. It's not necessarily a specific picture, but I'll I'll start with if they're a believer, I'll start with a verse and they pick the verse and they just say the verse a few times out loud and then a few times to themselves.

00:40:35:25 - 00:40:57:12
Unknown
And then I ask them to ask God to give them a picture of of himself, of whatever maybe the verse was talking about. And 90% of the time that actually happens in that client's mind, and then we just step into that interaction or whatever picture God gave him in that moment. Because whatever he creates in that moment is obviously what that person needs.

00:40:57:12 - 00:41:22:28
Unknown
So the Holy Spirit is present inside of us. So he'll, he'll he'll offer up memories and thoughts and images that we may need, or have the ability to process through him. Yeah. And I think, I think our, in our culture, where we always have something to watch or something to listen to, I think we've killed off our ability to really hear God on a regular basis.

00:41:22:28 - 00:41:44:22
Unknown
So just, I try to do this myself as I try to at least spend 60 seconds of seconds of silence a day, not even necessarily try to pray or anything, just I'm just trying to retrain my brain that, hey, silence is good, because then if we could actually step in the silence quicker and with more comfort, then we could really step into God's presence in that prayerful way.

00:41:44:24 - 00:42:08:16
Unknown
But let me ask you this because a lot of clients that I've, I've seen that they they will beat themselves up if the spiritual exercises didn't work. So to speak, if they didn't work in, in the time that they thought it should, or in the way that, that they thought it should. So sometimes some, some spiritual hurt can come from some of these exercises that didn't go as far as they thought it would.

00:42:08:17 - 00:42:27:19
Unknown
You'll you'll ever encounter that. Yeah. So that's the challenge. I mean, that's a common challenge, especially around healing, right? When you really go all in on God's ability to heal and then you don't get healed, right then it's there can be a lot of resentment and disdain towards God. And yeah, I'm sure I'm sure people do that.

00:42:27:19 - 00:42:52:20
Unknown
And I'm conscious to to not do that because I'm a teacher. So I'm always teaching people new ways and techniques. And countering God and connecting with God. And so I'm, I'm actually learning one right now. So I this morning I got a book, I met this guy, Bob Boudin, and he wrote a book called, Two Chairs, the two chairs.

00:42:52:20 - 00:43:09:19
Unknown
And it's, he started doing this maybe 50 years ago, and his mom did it and basically place another chair next to you, and you imagine God is in that chair, and you visualize God in that chair, and you come every single morning and you ask God questions, and he reveals and speak and speaks to you through like and a God.

00:43:09:25 - 00:43:29:05
Unknown
God doesn't usually speak through, through, he doesn't speak audibly to most people. He speaks through. Then I ask as I tell it, as is at my events, right? Where is God? God is all around us and inside of us. The Holy Spirit's inside of us. So therefore, a lot of the answers that we're searching for come from within, not from without.

00:43:29:08 - 00:43:46:29
Unknown
They don't come from without. They come from within. Yeah. And so it's like those thoughts that you have, chances are they could be the Holy Spirit when you're in tune with the spirit. And so it's learning to listen internally not for a voice but for images, for thoughts, that God is revealing things to you. And so, so this morning.

00:43:46:29 - 00:44:01:17
Unknown
So I'm, I'm, I want to I'm reading the book and I want, I want to practice it. And so I have I have a good time with God each morning where I pray and I journal, but I don't have as much back and forth conversation as I would like to. And so I'm like, game on, baby. Yeah. And so I'm, so I practiced this morning.

00:44:01:17 - 00:44:19:28
Unknown
I sat there and I had, I did I did my journaling so I wasn't able to like, just talk randomly. So I had to ask the questions and I wrote them out, and I do I do best hearing from God through, through, through writing or through journaling on my computer. And so I'm practicing right now, though I'm going to I'm practicing that.

00:44:19:28 - 00:44:39:28
Unknown
I'm going to I'm going to open that pathway up with God so we can have a daily more of a deep daily encounter where I can hear from God on a daily basis through just a different revelation. But today was like it was a challenge, right? Learning that new habit. And so it's probably going to be a challenge moving forward until I really get used to it.

00:44:40:01 - 00:45:05:05
Unknown
So I want to I'm saying that so people know if they're trying something new, if they're encountering God anyways, just roll with it like it's not going to be perfect. You have to. Some things happen right away and some things it takes many, many tries before you. You can get it. Yeah. I mean, for somebody like you to say like, I don't hear from God conversationally, like I would, I would think somebody might see somebody like you in a leadership position and think, well, he's got it all figured out.

00:45:05:05 - 00:45:33:25
Unknown
Who hears from God like that and everything's good. So I love that you said it and you helped me think of another exercise. There's there's one that one of my friends who's also a therapist taught me. It's called the Flame of Light exercise. And since the Bible talks about God's Spirit oftentimes being represented as a flame, if you close your eyes and you imagine that a little tiny spark is somewhere in your kind of middle of your chest region, and then you imagine that flame, be kind of let the vision happen.

00:45:33:25 - 00:45:47:13
Unknown
But you ask God, like, do it, do. Or should we do it right now? Sure. Let's do it. I like it, I guess let's roll with it. All right. I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna go with it, too. Yeah, let's do it. All right. Lead the way. All right, so, yeah, let's close our eyes and let's just take a couple breaths.

00:45:47:13 - 00:46:16:28
Unknown
First, and we'll try to breathe to where the air gets sent to our stomach. And then we breathe it out through our mouth. And it always helps if you can breathe out for eight seconds if you're trying to relax. So let's try to do that.

00:46:17:01 - 00:46:41:17
Unknown
And now let's just turn our attention to the middle of our body somewhere around our chest. And let's ask God to Lord, just come into this vision with us and be that fire that you say that you are inside of us. And help us to help us to see that fire in us. And this could be the picture he gives you.

00:46:41:17 - 00:46:52:25
Unknown
It could be a match. It could be a spark. It could be any sort of a flame. But just let that image come.

00:46:52:28 - 00:47:13:29
Unknown
And let's just ask God to now grow that flame. So, Lord, consumers take over the parts of our body that you want to inhabit and burn off the things that are in the way.

00:47:14:01 - 00:47:33:02
Unknown
And let's just take a few seconds and allow that to happen. Sometimes if you can sit here long enough, as this flame expands, you can start to feel maybe a little bit of a heat sensation or a tingling sensation.

00:47:33:05 - 00:47:46:17
Unknown
And then many times there will be parts in our body that feel like they're there, kind of blocking the flame.

00:47:46:20 - 00:48:03:04
Unknown
So Lord, show us as this flame expands. Show us the parts in us that are blocking or resisting you and resisting the fire.

00:48:03:07 - 00:48:28:18
Unknown
And if you find one of those places, we bring curiosity, just like we talked about. We just say, all right, Lord, help us figure this out. What is what is this spot in me? Is this an emotion? Does it have any sort of physical sensation? Is it cold? Maybe it's heavy, maybe it's sharp. Have some sort of shape to it.

00:48:28:21 - 00:48:39:04
Unknown
What is this? Is it emotion? Is it a past memory? Maybe it's a part that needs attention.

00:48:39:07 - 00:48:48:28
Unknown
Maybe some sort of wound or trauma. Even little traumas.

00:48:49:00 - 00:49:00:00
Unknown
Lord, help us identify that. What is this?

00:49:00:02 - 00:49:12:16
Unknown
And now, Lord, what would you say to us right now? What would you say about this part or about how you see us?

00:49:12:18 - 00:49:32:06
Unknown
Lord, you are the the only father that that is perfect who can give us what we need and would help us soak up your presence and be more and more connected to you and in you.

00:49:32:09 - 00:50:00:14
Unknown
So Lord, help us to carry your presence in the form of this flame wherever we go and whenever we find ourselves wandering from you or triggered in some way, help us to just gently turn back to this flame. And in you we can find the warmth and the comfort and everything that we need, and then help us to keep coming back to the spots that are being blocked.

00:50:00:16 - 00:50:15:13
Unknown
Help us to keep coming back to those spots with just curiosity and compassion. And we trust that you'll help us understand what needs to happen in those places as well.

00:50:15:16 - 00:50:35:29
Unknown
As Lord, we love you and we thank you for loving us. In Jesus name, Amen. Amen. So love it. That's that's like a starting point of an exercise. And yeah, we ran through it quicker than I would normally run through before with the client. Imagine you'd process through the things that are happening and help you gain some clarity in the moment.

00:50:35:29 - 00:50:52:16
Unknown
I would be asking the client, still with their eyes closed, like where do you notice the flame moving? What are you feeling? And if they find a spot that's blocked, we would just be curious and I'd ask them some questions about that spot and we'd invite God into that. Yeah. So. But that little exercise, you can at least tailor it to whatever you great love of man.

00:50:52:20 - 00:51:09:02
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, I felt I felt a block around my stomach. It was interesting. I got curious about that. And, yeah, I have some challenges right now with some, eating patterns that are ineffective. Right. And some emotional eating stuff, usually at night, like, I'll grab that, I'll have some chips or just like, do some stuff that's just unnecessary.

00:51:09:02 - 00:51:26:09
Unknown
Right, right. And so it's just a pattern. And so I asked in that moment like, Lord, where, where like what what what are you telling me about this? And I just got a visualization of me as a kid, like eating Funyuns, but as a as a coping mechanism to deal with stress and pain, using food to be able to to be able to cope with that.

00:51:26:10 - 00:51:45:03
Unknown
Yeah. That's kind of cool. Little cool little visualization. The coping connects back to that comfort thing we were talking about earlier. Oh yeah. Totally love it. Love it man. There's something powerful. There's there's like we talked about breakfast man. There's just so many there's so many men that love Jesus and are still trapped.

00:51:45:05 - 00:52:03:21
Unknown
Oh they're not, they're not living in freedom. Then the freedom that Christ has available for them. Right? Where the spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. That's my favorite verse. Yeah. Such a good verse. Right? It's so profound. And, it may seem like it's not true. Right on the outside. It's like we talk about it. But people, they haven't surrendered, they haven't given their their life.

00:52:03:21 - 00:52:19:03
Unknown
They haven't really done some of the work that's necessary for the spirit to be able to work fully in them. Yeah. To give them the peace, the joy, the kindness, the love, all the things, all the fruits of the spirit that they're searching for. Absolutely. So I love your work where I was supporting man on stepping into freedom.

00:52:19:04 - 00:52:36:05
Unknown
Right. That's that's our mission, that rock. We want to help guys level up and freedom. Like, can we do that through events and experiences? Right. You do that through, counseling and and one on one, and some. Just some power. Powerful work. Yeah. Yeah. It's good to be in the fight with you. Alongside you. Yeah. So to speak.

00:52:36:05 - 00:53:03:06
Unknown
The same language. Got the same mission. So I'm fired up. Yeah. So good, so good. Yeah. What? Anything. As we as we kind of close out, What's, We're just for the guys listening to this podcast. What's one thing that if guys are looking to create more, to become healthier as a human being, I would say even emotionally, what's, what's a starting point?

00:53:03:08 - 00:53:22:27
Unknown
The simplest thing I know is to go back to that 60s of silence thing that I talked about, that it doesn't take a whole lot of your time. It's going to be uncomfortable at first. But man, if you can give that gift to yourself or make that investment in yourself, just get 60s today and then build it to 90s the next day.

00:53:23:03 - 00:53:46:04
Unknown
Because so much of your brain, your brain really does know how to heal itself. You just got to give it the space. It's like the phones and everything else that distracts us. Our brains need to rest. And we talked about this at breakfast. The analogy is if if you do curls constantly, your muscle is never going to regrow bigger because working out just tears it down.

00:53:46:12 - 00:54:05:00
Unknown
You got to actually rest your biceps to let them grow. It's the same thing with our mind. If we're constantly looking at something on the phone or listening to something or talking to somebody, it's our brain is always having to work. So if we can just give it rest, even in small doses, because your brain won't really know what to do with the rest at first, because it's just so foreign to it.

00:54:05:00 - 00:54:27:28
Unknown
But start to build it and if if you build that habit and do it for 28 straight days, and if you don't feel better, then email me and we'll figure out what the real, the real thing is because I've never met anybody who doesn't feel noticeably different after doing that for 28 straight days. Great. And where where's the best place to for people to reach you.

00:54:28:00 - 00:54:46:09
Unknown
Rugged counseling on all the different platforms is podcasts on YouTube and social media stuff. There's a book coming eventually in February, I think so, but helping us answer those same questions for, for, your folks, what's what's one thing you would leave and then how do we find you? What's one thing I would leave them with?

00:54:46:10 - 00:54:49:11
Unknown
Yeah.

00:54:49:13 - 00:55:17:07
Unknown
For guys that are looking to level up and become the best versions of themselves, especially, yeah. The desire, I would say that one of the best, a worthy ambition would be doing our best to live a whole healed life as a man. So what does that look like? It means like it looks like reading books, listening to podcasts, and having a desire to be whole and the way that we operate.

00:55:17:10 - 00:55:43:04
Unknown
Yeah. And so God will reveal the areas that we need to level up in. And when we have those like I talked about the six keys. Right. We go find some people, find some associations like start to do some of this work to start to live. Because what I've found, especially for the men of faith listening to this, is that God desires us to live an excellent life so that people will follow us and we can lead them to Christ.

00:55:43:06 - 00:56:08:23
Unknown
Yeah, right. So when we live an excellent life, God is glorified and people come to Christ, if we're representing Christ well. And so, I think the better we live a life, the more healed and whole and wholesome we become, the more profoundly it impacts the kingdom. And it brings heaven on earth. Right? We have this misconception that we're just all waiting to go to heaven.

00:56:08:26 - 00:56:29:15
Unknown
Dude. Now, the goal, right on earth as it is in heaven. So. Right. The goal is to bring heaven on earth and to bring goodness. So God wins when goodness when there's more good than there is evil. Yeah. On earth. So it's a battle like I used to think. Oh, like the goal is just to get as many salvations as possible.

00:56:29:15 - 00:56:46:15
Unknown
It's like, nope, that's a goal, sure. But man, Christ came not just for our salvation to for us to go to heaven. Christ came so that we could live heaven on earth. Yeah. So we can be freed from sin. So that. And so we get to live that out and practice living that out. And so what we do.

00:56:46:16 - 00:57:03:18
Unknown
Right. Helping more men. So I think having that goal is, hey, I want to I want Christ to be glorified by it through my life is one of the most worthy goals us as men could live is, hey Lord, refine me with that fire. Help me to live a life that glorifies you and practicing that each day. So I think that's a worthy and we're going to fail.

00:57:03:18 - 00:57:22:29
Unknown
We're going to miss it. But that's a worthy ambition. Oh yeah. We got to have a mission that's bigger than ourselves and that's there's no better mission than that. Yeah. So for us to rise up kings.com. Right. And then Skylar, Skylar Lewis on on the different, social profiles and, yeah, that's good stuff. And that was a fun conversation.

00:57:22:29 - 01:03:10:23
Unknown
I really enjoyed that. We do. Yeah. This is awesome. We got to keep it going. Out of respect. Yeah.